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| 18 |
Grace Wang Called a Traitor Dear Jianshuo, It might be interesting for you to know that I first saw this piece of article on Chinaren's BBS in English with a completely different version "translated" into Chinese side by side. What is even more interesting is that whoever who posted this article added in (brackets) his/ her own interpretation of the situation and Grace's frame of mind at that time, of course, in attempt to influence the readers. This is how the masses went out of control. Some smart ass adding "salt and pepper" to Grace's original letter. LOL...as usual, its something commonly seen in China. Else the game "Chinese whisper" would not be called "Chinese whisper".... |
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Brief Chat with Andrew Hey Cindy, your conclusion that Pro independence Tibetans don't speak Tibetan is a joke. I wonder where and how you draw that conclusion? I have seen them at protests..yes, they speak Tibetan as a first language and the country they reside in (ie. India, USA, France etc) as a second language. The language they cannot speak for nuts is Chinese |
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More Discussion on Tibet To correct the typos in my previous post @ Wonton... awww.. I am starting to find it difficult to communicate with you and I wonder if you are deliberately trying to piss me off. I have never said that I am supporting that Tibetan guy based on his expression. It would be ridiculous to take part in a protest simply because of someone's expression and I am not that stupid! I have made it extremely clear in my very first posting. That facial expression thingy was just a random thought and I was inviting you to reflect as someone in his position - a Tibetan living in exile with no proper identity. There is a story behind his motive and if you can see it? Have you ever asked these Tibetans what they really want? Sit down with them and see things from their perspective? Okay enough Then with regards to the Jin Jing issue, all I am saying is it is NOT despicable for anyone to snuff out that flame. Honestly, is anyone robbing her? Is anyone harming her? Is anyone going to rape her? NO. Their goal was to snuff out that flame and irregardless of who carries that torch, the goal would remains the same - to snuff out that flame. Honestly, no one cares who the torch bearer is. Even if China digs out a dead flesh to hold the torch, there would still be people snuffing out the flame. Even if China got a baby to hold the torch, people would still snuff out the flame. What China is doing now is to capitalize using the persons involved to mask the real objectives. That's why I asked you, if it was Yao Ming who was carrying the torch, would you be saying the reversed then? Because the Chinese have essentially called that Tibetan guy who attempted to snuff out the flame from the torch Jin Jing was carrying a "bully"? Hence, I asked if it was Yao Ming who was carrying the torch, would you call him a bully then? That dude would be twice the same of an average Tibetan?!?! See the logic? Stick to the MOTIVES, not PERSONS! Man, I really don't understand why China cannot get pass the fact that the protesters were not targeting Jin Jing and the fact that no one cares who carry the torch. Even if it was a 9 month old baby carrying the torch while crawling on the floor, I will still do the same. I am not hurting that baby but by NOT snuffing out that flame, I would be encouraging human rights abuse in China indirectly..HURTING the many Tibetans wanting to be heard by the international community! |
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More Discussion on Tibet @ Wonton... awww.. I am starting to find it difficult to communicate with you and I wonder if you are deliberately trying to piss me off. I have never said that I am supporting that Tibetan guy based on his expression. It would be ridiculous to take part in a protest simply because of someone's expression and I am not that stupid! I have made it extremely clear in my very first posting. That facial expression thingy was just a random thought and I was inviting you to reflect as someone in his position - a Tibetan living in exile with no proper identity. There is a story behind hos motive and if can it? Have you ever asked these Tibetans what they really want? Sit down with them and see things from their perspective? Okay enough Then with regards to the Jin Jing issue, all I am saying is it is NOT despicable for anyone to snuff out that flame. Honestly, is anyone robbing her? Is anyone harming her? Is anyone going to rape her? NO. Their goal was to snuff out that flame and irregardless of who carries that torch, the goal would remains the same - to snuff out that flame. Honestly, no one cares who the torch bearer is. Even if China digs out a dead flesh to hold the torch, there would still be people snuffing out the flame. Even if China got a baby to hold the torch, people would still snuff out the flame. What China is doing now is to capitalize using the persons involved to mask the real objectives. That's why I asked you, if it was Yao Ming who was carrying the torch, would be be saying the reversed then? Because the Chinese have essentially called the protester a "bully"? Hence, if it was Yao Ming carrying the torch, would you call him a bully then? That dude would be twice the same of an average Tibetan? Man, I really don't understand why China cannot get pass the fact that the protesters were not targeting Jin Jing and the fact that no one cares who carry the torch. Even if it was a 9 month old baby carrying the torch while crawling on the floor, I will still do the same. I am not hurting that baby but by not NOT snuffing out that flame, I would be hurting the human rights in Tibet. Hello BO, Calm and civilised. There is nothing calm and civilised in what the protesters are doing is there ?? I am grateful for your response even thought I am a little lost on your points. Especially the one on Yao Ming. But it's ok, I think we are both looking from different angles. I also don't understand the "race" thing you wrote about. Anyways, like someone said before, the view is quite different depending on where you stand. We are both rather sure of ourselves but the only difference is that it is us who have to deal with it and not some person screaming from afar. As to whether you capitalise on anything at all, it really don't matter much. My response was from reading exactly what you wrote about your basis of supporting the protester ie. his pained expression. Nowhere did you offer me any other support for your decision. But frankly I am quite tired of continuing on this subject. We can write till the cows come home and the distance between us may not change. Let us just agree to disagree on this matter for now. I think there is too much emotions on all sides. Whatever it is, I am glad that we are able to treat each other with courtesy. |
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Standing Cross Different Lines @ Peter, I think REAL changes can happen in China, at a much quicker pace, if its enacted by people in China instead of foreigners like us. Critics, healthy or not, will only inflame nationalistic sentiments and mask the real problem. |
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More Discussion on Tibet One more thing... Wonton Its is not for you or me to decide on the fate of the millions of Tibetans. Self rule or not...they can decide for themsleves. Like you and me, they have brains too. Do you deny them of this basic right to think independently? You have to admit that the Tibetans are not happy and that's the main reason for these series of events that have been splashed across frontpages of various newspaper North, South, East and West for the past few weeks.... This is not western propaganda or "gang-up" (news in other parts of Asia report similar stuff for your info).....there are people who are truly upset with the positions that they find themsleves in - The Tibetans (in exile or not) |
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"Love China" Blooms on MSN Messenger @ summer-go, are you sure the Chinese invented powder? What powder? Comestic powder? Those you use on your face when you go partying? Make yourself clear... I am sure you meant "gun powder"! |
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More Discussion on Tibet @ Wonton, to answer your question, which I cannot speak for others, I did not "capitalise" on the Tibetan guy's facial expression. It was only one of the many things that I pondered upon... like I said, I don't know him but please do not crash him simply because he tried to extinguish the torch. My point reminds whether the torch bearer is handicap or not will not change the action or determination of the protesters. Therefore, I asked you if you think you would perceive the same event differently if the torch bearer was Yao Ming instead? You said that you would not be "as" angry and that proved my point. You thought that it was disgusting for that guys to snuff out the flame from Jing Jing, would you think it would be disgusting for Yao Ming to be towering over a protester half his size to "protect" the flame then? You are not looking at the situation but rather the players involved. Isn't the underlying cause and agenda more important? I also do not agree that the protests are ONLY coming from Tibetans living OUTSIDE Tibet. The first protest came from within Tibet in March! And regardless of whether they are living in Chinese-ruled Tibet ot outside will not change the fact that they DO have a vested interest in the outcome of the protest. How does being outside Chinese-ruled Tibet strip them of a "stake"? Like how overseas PRC students feel angry about Carrefour and CNN, these overseas Tibetans are also angry with Beijing. Its the same set of emotions expressed for entity (China and Tibet). To clarify some of your assumptions/ accusation: 1. I never supported Bush's decision to send troops into Iraq. I think its is important to different between ordinary American and G. Bush. I protested against this actually. 2. Its true that I am disgusted with communist regime but I see its as the Chinese govt's fault, not that of the ordinary Chinese walking on the street. I distrust Chinese govt. Period. Please don't link this "race". 3. What makes you think I don't know China well enough? Or even the history of China and Tibet? You might be surprised. I probably know more than you? 4. Its clear that we have very different opinion and stand regarding this issue but am glad that we can voice our differences calmly in a civilised way. |
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More Discussion on Tibet Hi Peter, I agree with you that nationalism or patriotism is a dirty word. Too many politicians have played around with these ideas to win mass support even when they are leading the country to doom. I always believe that patriotism is actually reversed discrimination. When you are "patriotic", its hard to see things objectively. In one of my earlier post, someone rebutted that "love is a good word, loving one country is a good thing, don't you love your own country" Let me tell you, nope..not to the point of patriotism or blind love. Example: "even when your government is imperfect"....NO WAY I would protest against my own government anytime when I feel that they are not doing enough for us...anytime when I feel that they are oppressing us. For the Tibetans, thats exactly the case, isn't it? They are protesting against the oppression by Beijing. |
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More Discussion on Tibet Hi Wonton, never in my post did I mentioned that Chinese are all brainwashed by the government regarding the Jin Jing incident! I just feel that too many people have capitalised on the incident to crash the protesters. Maybe you should ask yourself what was it that has made this guy reacted the way he did! For all you know, all his family could have been killed by the PLA in 1950. Of course that's only my guess... behind every action, there is a reason and only strong reason can create just a strong response. I do not know this guy, I have never even met him in real life but you can see how desperate he was when he tried to extinguished the torch. Do you see his pain? Have you ever wonder about the kind of oppression and grievances that he wants the world to hear? I still think that the Chinese netizens are capitalizing on this event. Jin Jing is a multiple paralympics champion with a lot of support and political power, how does that level up with the ordinary Tibetans living in exile who does not even have a legitimate identity? Answer my question, if the torch bearer was Yao Ming instead, would you guys support that Tibetan guy instead? See the hipocrasy? PS: I am not French... someone above thought I'm French |
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More Discussion on Tibet That's exactly the point Peter. Many people in China has either unintentionally failed or deliberately refused to see the point that this demonstration/ disruption would occur regardless of whether the torch-bearer is handicap (or Chinese for that matter) or not. Far from being handicap, Jin Jing actually has a lot of support and power behind her. Do not forget that she has two other fully body-abled persons escorting her! It is shameful for China or Chinese netizens to capitalize on this event because her disability has not made her any more vulnerable than other torch-bearer. Are Chinese netizens trying to say that if Yao Ming was the one carrying the torch then the situation would be reversed and they would criticize Yao Ming for "bullying" the smaller size Tibetan then? Any Chinese would wants to use Jin Jing as an example of "defenseless" weakling should first consider the 6 year old Panchen Lama who was adducted from his home 12 years ago while he sleeps. Who is the real defenseless person now? A paralympic champion with two escorts or a 6 year old boy adducted from home by the Peoples "liberation" Army? This little boy has never reappeared in public since he was adducted in 1996. Some people claimed to have seen him in various labour camps in Beijing but no one knows for sure....Beijing denies all allegations. |
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Why I Didn't Cover About Tibet @ Mei Taiwan was given away to the Japs after a war. You can say China lose it to Japan but either way, they lose their sovereignty which means if Japan give way (which they did) then Taiwan is on its own. A treaty was signed then that China cease control over Formosa (current day's Taiwan). I also want to point to your attention that the map if named accurately was drawn under Manchurian rule. If that stands true then by the same token of your argument, I can say that the whole of China, Beijing, Shanghai, Tianjing should be hearing commands from Manchuria which existed as a separate kingdom for a short span of time (yeah yeah...you are going to throw me the "puppet government theory" but isn't China doing the same with the Panchen Lama in Tibet, knowing its significance to the Tibetans?). Tibet is not Taiwan so you can throw that out of the window. By the way, I have assumed that you are Chinese (PRC) because you had decided (in identifying) that you are Chinese and stopped there. If I am American of Chinese descent then I would identify myself as American before anything else, ie. American Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, French, English, German...etc. but you have decided that your identity as a Chinese precedes anything else and you stopped at that. To correct your similarly wrong assumptions about me, I am neither Chinese or Taiwanese so you are wrong. I am not pro-Taiwan or Pro-China, I'm merely sticking to facts and it obviously upsets you. Ta |
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Why I Didn't Cover About Tibet Dear Du, Thanks for your reply but unfortunately I have the same words for you. First of all, I applaud your courage and effort to write in English and I reciprocated by putting in real hard work in deciphering them. However, you have put a very weak argument across.... Like the Chinese websites that you have quoted, you were also unable to convince me and others of WHY and BY HOW the truth lies with the China. The only thing that the pictures demonstrated was poor picture editing skills, not news distortion. Like how the media in the west was unable to give a full coverage of the issue in China at the present, at least they have got the historical component right. Now what have the chinese media proved? Other than repeatedly accusing the western media of falsely portraying the lack of human rights and repression of Tibetans in "China" (I admit I do not believe Tibet was or should be a province of China), they have not been able to cough up other substantial evidences of legal rights to rule Tibet, nor its equal treatment towards Tibetans and Han Chinese. In response to your rebut regarding Taiwan and PRC, please also understand that having the same "ancestry" or bloodline doesn't equate to sharing the same national identity. Many Americans, Canadian, Australian and New Zealanders share the same cultural background to UK, so are you saying they should be be annexed by UK? I believe in the rights to self determination that clearly China does not believe in and I thank my ancestors for not having made China their home where I would then be a part of. It would be hard for me to understand the true embolism of human rights and self determination since you never had the opportunity to be part of it. Until then, I pray that God would be with you. Good to know that you rest your faith in God rather than the CCP anyway. |
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Why I Didn't Cover About Tibet @Du, You wonder why the French are so ill informed about Tibet? Just read the drivel that comes out the French organization Reporters Without Borders! Look at its setup and where it gets its funding from. North America and European governments and get this.... Taiwan Foundation for Democracy, a quasi government body! Impartiality? No way! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Mei, Taiwan is according to you, a "quasi government " because your country - PRC made it to be... and please be aware that at any time, this supposedly quasi government has more economical power and democratic rights than your assumed "full government" Impartiality? Show me an example where china has ever been impartial.... look at your own country's media before calling the kettle black. |
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In San Jose from Nov 9 to Nov 18 wish you have a nice trip in US. for the readers: I'm a chinese and live in Tian jin--TEDA, if there is any foreign friend in Tianjin have anything need help, I'm happy to , just like YUNINHO said : " I am chinese and I can help the foreigner for a good price because most of them paid very expensive....I speak quite well english but french is my language alors contactez moi si vous ne voulez pas vous faire carotte hihi !!!" mugua.mc@126.com |
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Keep Doing, and Its Meaning good, people should have some thing to make them " keep going" |
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Exciting Donghai Bridge and New Habor City Your web is the faster one I can open here In Singapore, which give me some kinf of comfort, I'll stay here for another 40 days, reading something from mainlan give me good feeling. is there anything you want to get from Singapore?/? let me know,, please |
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New Year's Eve - the Year of Dog excuse me, I like to read your blog but you do surprise me so much when I know that you were born in the year of dog,you are too young if you were 24 this year,and you are too old if you were 36 years old. I guess you just born in 1982, right??? please let me know the truth through email,,,, it's very importan to me!!! thanks a lot!!! |